This is a speed rush, EA. - Page 3 (2024)

SeaOfRed75

OVR: 3

Join Date: Nov 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by NEOPARADIGM

So which is it? You're bitching your dude can't put up big numbers rushing the passer, then in the next breath you're calling the CPU pass blocking stupid. This is why this forum isn't worth a squirt of piss anymore.

Sorry should have been more clear. Forgot the sarcastic tone on my stupid.

I mean stupid as not realistic. A ****ty OL will shift perfectly picking up a zone blitz when you havent done it all game.

And no Im not some whiny kid who thinks all of my DEs should have 5 sacks every damn game. I do however know football enough to know if you pass 40+ times a game and go 4 and 5 wide a lot, guys with skills like I mentioned would eat you alive.

I think most on here are just pissed at having elite speed rushing DE's and still getting burned by below average and average lines while the CPU goes 4 and 5 wide.

See the other post I responded to on this page. Rating need to matter. Currently every damn player seems to blur together.

sportyguyfl31

OVR: 34

Join Date: Nov 2005

What's frustrating, is that if you control a monster DE, left side or right...you can generate some damn fan passrush animations; bullrush, rip move, spin move, double swipe.

I have had great looking sequences, where I went...move-counter move, and got the pressure, hurry or sack...but you will NEVER see your DE's fly off the ball and do anything other then one initial move.

Even if you are using jump-snap, it is still one hard charge, and if the initial rush move doesnt shed the block, its patty-cake waltz time.

rudyjuly2

OVR: 75

Join Date: Aug 2002

Location: Kingsville, ON

Posts: 14,741

Blog Entries: 110

I hate Rush and I'm Canadian! Please no more links to that awful band! I'm not sure what's worse, Rush or a wailing cat scratching it's way across a blackboard.

For me the problem here isn't ratings, it's the game engine. 2K football did the speed rush very well going back to 2K4. Their engine understood that the OL and DL interaction didn't require full on engagement. EA's football engine has always required an OL and a DL to fully engage before the ratings kick in and someone wins or loses. This has to be fixed for the speed rush to work properly. They need partial engagements like an OT only being able to get a hand on the DE which may slow him down a little or not at all.

What we normally have now with EA is an all or nothing win and lose in the trenches. It's why we see too many tackles for loss in the backfield and too many pancakes at the same time. They need to improve the variety here and create small wins and losses. They need more dynamic movement in the trenches. Two players don't just wrestle until someone falls over or gets beat 100%. An OL should be able to move a DL a little more or get the angle on him. If a DL beats the OL that may just mean getting better position in the hole instead of practically taking the hand off from the RB since he's so far in the backfield. It's the huge loss by the OL that really hurts the spread offenses in the game. We need a big improvement in how this is done and the variety of outcomes.

Lastly, why don't we have a pass rush rating for DL? We have a few different pass block ratings for OL but no pass rush rating for the DL. Being a good pass rusher isn't just about being quick and fast. Instinct plays a big part as well. Awareness doesn't cut it imo. I think EA would be better off scrapping the overall ratings system they use and develop a simpler ratings system that is specific to every position.

sportyguyfl31

OVR: 34

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

I hate Rush and I'm Canadian! Please no more links to that awful band! I'm not sure what's worse, Rush or a wailing cat scratching it's way across a blackboard. For me the problem here isn't ratings, it's the game engine. 2K football did the speed rush very well going back to 2K4. Their engine understood that the OL and DL interaction didn't require full on engagement. EA's football engine has always required an OL and a DL to fully engage before the ratings kick in and someone wins or loses. This has to be fixed for the speed rush to work properly. They need partial engagements like an OT only being able to get a hand on the DE which may slow him down a little or not at all. What we normally have now with EA is an all or nothing win and lose in the trenches. It's why we see too many tackles for loss in the backfield and too many pancakes at the same time. They need to improve the variety here and create small wins and losses. They need more dynamic movement in the trenches. Two players don't just wrestle until someone falls over or gets beat 100%. An OL should be able to move a DL a little more or get the angle on him. If a DL beats the OL that may just mean getting better position in the hole instead of practically taking the hand off from the RB since he's so far in the backfield. It's the huge loss by the OL that really hurts the spread offenses in the game. We need a big improvement in how this is done and the variety of outcomes. Lastly, why don't we have a pass rush rating for DL? We have a few different pass block ratings for OL but no pass rush rating for the DL. Being a good pass rusher isn't just about being quick and fast. Instinct plays a big part as well. Awareness doesn't cut it imo. I think EA would be better off scrapping the overall ratings system they use and develop a simpler ratings system that is specific to every position.

^^^Finesse move and power move are the pass rush ratings.

When you recruit..the pass rush D-Linemen will have a higher finesse move grade then the run stuffer DLs. run stuffer DLs tend to habe higher power and block shed rating

ViLLiO

OVR: 13

Join Date: Feb 2011

Location: Birmingham

I'm still curious if we'll be able to hit the outside with our DEs without falling victim to suction blocking, that is apparently a thing of the past. If suction blocking is truly gone, then elite DEs should be able to immediately rush the outside after the snap and allow us to drop 7-8 into zone coverage effectively.

This could be glorious.

ViLLiO

OVR: 13

Join Date: Feb 2011

Location: Birmingham

Look at this beautiful speed rush by Rhombic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaYB7CMtL10

Final Score: 20-14 (beautiful)

That is on NCAA 06 for PS2, I believe. Might be NCAA 07. Either way, we need it on the next gen platforms badly. If zone is truly fixed, then pressure with your front four (WHILE SHOWING BLITZ AND BACKING OFF) would give us a new found love for the game on the defensive side of the ball simply because we could disguise the blitz effectively.

THIS IS OFTEN REFERRED TO AS DEFENSIVE SCHEMING!!!

Senator Palmer

OVR: 18

Join Date: Jul 2008

You know, part of what I noticed in that vid you posted, is that the ends got out of their stances and upfield faster than in this gen -- for that matter, the receivers look like they are getting into their routes faster also.

And it's not just a matter of changing game speeds. The tuning has been somewhat off, especially in Madden. The user-controlled linemen just don't get off with the same quickness in relation to the other players around them.

noplace

OVR: 13

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Austin Tx

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